Busch motioned, Gordon shoved. Penalty fair?

1. Kyle Busch got a penalty for making an obscene gesture to a NASCAR official. Jeff Gordon didn't for picking a fight with Jeff Burton. Should that situation be reversed?

Jill Erwin: No way, for several reasons. Kyle has earned his reputation and his punishments with a laundry list of missteps. And trashing guys out there making less in a year than he makes in a day is not a good representation for NASCAR to put out there. Gordon and Burton's "fight" wouldn't even get you detention in high school, it certainly shouldn't cost anyone any money. Come on guys, ball up a fist! Cale and Bobby are crying.

David Caraviello: I wouldn't say reverse. How about ... leveled out? What Kyle did was no question disrespectful and childish, and I have no issue with NASCAR hitting him in the wallet over it. But no penalty for a guy who looked like he'd have ripped Burton's head off had officials not intervened? Sorry, that I have an issue with. So it's not OK to flip somebody off, but it is OK to try and take someone's head off? Is that the message?

Mark Aumann: Not in my opinion. If anything, I'm disappointed the officials stepped in so quickly between the Jeffs. That had the makings of a real donnybrook, had either guy landed a punch. As far as Kyle, he'd have been tossed from any other major sport for that. He was extremely lucky to get just a two-lap penalty and a fine.

Jill Erwin: Ooooh, "donnybrook" is a good word. I should have used that in Lap-by-Lap instead of fisticuffs, of which there were none. And David, you really think Gordon has it in him to take someone's head off? At least he took off the helmet before he "pushed" someone this time.

David Caraviello: Yeah, the message was effectively sent to Kyle that it's time to tone down the antics. Listen, I don't care how violent the fight was compared to 1979 or a high school lunchroom. I don't care if punches weren't ever thrown. That was unseemly. Jeff Gordon is a great driver and a tremendous person, but anyone who saw him chase Tony Stewart through the garage at Watkins Glen several years ago knows there's an edge down there. I don't have a problem with that. But physically accosting someone? In any other sport but the NHL, that's not acceptable.

Mark Aumann: Well, it had all the makings of a baseball brawl. Lots of pushing and shoving but no real haymakers.

• Rodman: Emotion needed
• Fired-up Gordon fires up HMS
• Burton: We're moving forward
• Gordon unapologetic
• Busch penalized for actions

Jill Erwin: David, they had plenty of time to stop Gordon once he refused to get into his ambulance. They knew he was going down there, and they had to see he wasn't going down there for a friendly conversation. For there to be that many officials and to wait until there was contact is at the least passive acceptance on the part of them for what was to ensue.

Mark Aumann: Going back to Kyle, remember the No. 1 rule: You cannot show up the officials. And Kyle went way over the boundaries there. I totally understand "competitive fire" but Kyle's been using that to cover over his lack of sportsmanship for some time. It finally came to a head Sunday. And although he issued an apology, it came off as contrite at best.

Jill Erwin: Mark, you could tell by J.D. Gibbs' post-race comments that he's about had it, as well. It's not to a point where they're going to drop him -- Kyle's too good for that -- but I think it's going to become a much more important situation for them to improve, and quickly.

David Caraviello: Oh, Jill, you should have heard the No. 18 radio transmissions during all that. I've never heard a crew chief scream at a driver like Dave Rogers did at Kyle. I think they were worried he was going to try and show up NASCAR again and not park it for the two laps. It got testy.

Jill Erwin: I do wish I had switched over to his channel, but was trying to keep up with the officials' feed instead. Kyle's radio is the place to be on Sundays, that's for sure.

Mark Aumann: That's perhaps the biggest knock on him ever winning a championship. He's certainly talented enough, but can he ever mature enough to quit having major meltdowns? And will he learn enough from this? Is this like Kurt's "riot act" moment at Phoenix in 2005? It seems like Kurt finally got the message then. Perhaps Kyle will know to tone it down from here.

David Caraviello: Back to the Gordon situation. So "have at it, boys," extends outside of the race cars now? Is that the message here? Going back to Mark's baseball analogy, what Jeff Gordon did was tantamount to charging the mound, which absolutely can earn you some kind of penalty from the home office. Listen, I'm not saying the guy should have been hammered. But I'm very uncomfortable with the tacit acceptance of violence. If that's the message NASCAR wants to send -- our drivers fight! -- it's the wrong one.

Jill Erwin: It's exactly the message NASCAR wants to send. People still talk about the 1979 Daytona 500 for that reason. People talk about Jimmy Spencer and Kurt Busch. People talk about Tony and Kurt. If you think Eddie Gossage isn't dreaming of what he can do with that incident to publicize next spring's race at Texas, you are sorely mistaken.

Mark Aumann: Shoot, that might not have even gotten a 15-yard penalty in the NFL.

David Caraviello: In the NBA, both participants would have been immediately kicked out of that game and suspended for the next one. Some sports don't mess around with this kind of crap.

Jill Erwin: I disagree. I don't think shoves would kick you out of an NBA game, but I could be wrong. They land a punch, I think we're having a different conversation. But this is Jeff Gordon and Jeff Burton. And as much as Kyle's reputation and behavior affects how he's treated, so do theirs. And those guys aren't troublemakers. If you want fire in the bellies of your guys, and NASCAR does, you can't bring down the hammer on them for that little tiff.

David Caraviello: Let's be clear, that was more than mere shoving. What Kevin Harvick and Juan Montoya did at Watkins Glen last year was shoving. What Gordon and Matt Kenseth did at Bristol several years ago was shoving. Everybody's caught up in "well, there wasn't a punch thrown!" If you think there has to be a punch thrown for it to be a fight, then you've never been in a fight.

Mark Aumann: David Caraviello, tough guy. I like the idea that David's a scrapper.

David Caraviello: Not at all, Mark. I can't stand it. I have zero tolerance for anyone who thinks violence is an acceptable means of solving personal disputes. But I also went to Catholic school.

Jill Erwin: Caraviello in a school uniform? How many times did you get rapped on the knuckles with a ruler? Maybe instead of fines, they can just hand out Hail Marys for the guys to say.

Mark Aumann: Hmmm, the last fight I was involved in was at the inaugural Brickyard 400. No punches landed but some shoving. Come to think of it, Gordon won. Coincidence?

David Caraviello: Mark, was that in the line to get to the media buffet? (Continued)